2018-11-16 00:00:00 report that Lonnie Kauk has once again repeated his father's Magic Line in Yosemite, upgrading it to 8c+ as he placed all gear on lead. Ron Kauk did the first ascent in 1996 and Lonnie did the first repeat in 2016, both with preplaced gear, i.e. (c) Lonnie's. The logic with the upgrade is basically that it is harder to climb a trad route placing the gear also because sometimes some of the holds are blocked.
Back in the days when sport climbing was created, you were also supposed to place the quick draws on lead and as a matter of a fact, until like 15 years ago, this was for many the way to go for onsights. One of the reason why a trad 8c+ is considered as harder than a sport 8c+ is because of this. Until now, no 9a trad route has been established and there exist only a couple 8c+ in the world, out of which two in Yosemite, including Beth Rodden's Meltdown. 2018-11-18 20:20:32 When Ron first climbed the route, the gear was pre-hung on rappel, and he referred to it as a “sport ascent of a trad route” With some climbs, the placing of the gear may not up the difficulty to a significant degree, but with some it does. Unless you’re working the climb extensively on toprope, don’t get to feel how the moves feel without the effort of placing gear Our grading systems take into account pump factor, and there’s no way to separate pump factor due to just the climbing from the pump factor that’s due to the strenuousness of placing gear. Particularly on a climb like this, where much of it is laybacking (as seen in the photo), and so you have to pull yourself in towards the crack to place gear and to see if it’s any good. That takes you out of the most economic body position for climbing which increases the physical effort significantly.
2018-11-21 00:45:20 He says in R&I that he had the gear placements so wired that '.it felt like there were quickdraws on my harness, like I was just clipping bolts.' This is pretty much true - once you've put the same nut/cam in the same place repeatedly, there's no fumbling around with it and it's little different from clipping bolts. So I think your assessment of gear placement making the route harder really only applies to onsights, not rehearsed redpoints - and we don't grade an onsight differently than a redpoint.
Hey everyone. So the discussion in the Sasha/Edu thread got me searching, but I couldn't find a definitive answer: what is the hardest trad pitch that has been done on gear?
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The Dawn Wall crux (14c/d?) appears to be the hardest trad pitch, but it looks like it was mostly bolt protected on preplaced draws (nothing wrong with that). So what has been the hardest gear route? Some contenders that I could find: 1) Meltdown 14c. Climbed by Beth Rodden, unrepeated. 2) Rhapsody 14c (Macleod, repeated by Sonnie Trotter and Steve McClure) 3) Walk of Life (14c?), James Pearson To further complicate things, these were all set in different grading systems (damn Brits!), but it seems like they all are falling around 14c.
Nobody has climbed all of them, and Meltdown hasn't even been repeated despite many attempts, so it's hard to say which is technically harder than the other. Am I missing any? Do you see a clear contender? Hard trad climbing has to be difficult to grade objectively - there are so many factors, not least of which is finger size.
![Crack Crack](/uploads/1/2/5/4/125444875/552292471.jpg)
You can build muscle groups for specific hard sport climbs, but it's pretty difficult to make your fingers just the right size. For instance with Meltdown, it's possible that it hasn't seen a repeat because the jams are so tiny.the only person I know who has put in serious attempts is Carlo Traversi TC said his fingers didn't fit in the crux holds. I wonder if Ondra gave it a go when he was in the Valley? Seems like it would be up his alley. Another thing that can be hard to quantify on trad climbs is the scare factor.I know of a few 5.12X climbs that probably won't be repeated because they're just too damn terrifying. But that's another thread.
Also, I seem to recall Stanhope and Segal saying that if someone were to send the whole crack pitch on Tom Egan from stance to stance that it would be 14+.but I could be making that up. Ondra doesn't seem to be that into hard crack climbing, but then he sent the Dawn Wall so I don't think there's anything he CAN'T do. I doubt his fingers would fit if Tommy's don't, as he's fairly taller. I thought about Cobra crack, but the consensus seems to be on 14b and the number of repeats makes me wonder if it's a tad easier.
The Macleod routes are also X, although that hasn't stopped other crazy ass Brits like Steve McClure. I agree that it's really hard to compare different styles.Century Crack (14b) might actually be the toughest; I can't imagine climbing roof Offwidth.
Tom and Pete took a stab at Meltdown and said it might even be harder than 14c.